Mind, Attitude and Money - Interview with Arnie Cole and Warren Wiersbe

Arnie Cole: Thank you Warren for being in our studio today. It's so great to have you here again. You know, you said that the mind grows by taking in and the heart grows by giving out. Explain the natural progression of taking in and giving out.

Warren Wiersbe: I think that that comparison originally came from Winston Churchill. He says we go through life, we grow by taking in and we also grow by giving out. You know, you can't keep on taking in. At some point you have to give out. This is true of breathing. If all we did was take in, take in, where would we be? Billy Graham, I think, is the one who used to say God gave us two hands—one to receive and one to give. And I think he's hit the nail on the head. As people, as human beings made in the image of God, we need to realize life has to be balanced. If all we do is take in, we're selfish. If all we do is give out, what are we giving? It takes balance.

Arnie Cole: You know, I love how you say that we have a mind to think with, emotions to feel with, and a will to decide with. And when these are in balance, our life is in balance. But in my experience, I never had a balanced, stable life until after I came to know Christ. And what about those people that live in horrible situations? Where do they get balance?

Warren Wiersbe: We can give thanks to God for His grace because what you just said about yourself, we could all say about ourselves. We get out of balance. When you're out of balance, you can't walk straight, you can't think straight, you can't talk straight. And yet when you know Jesus as your Savior, He puts everything together. In my own devotional life, one of the first things I do in the morning is, "Now Lord," I say, "here I am, and I'm giving you my body." That's Romans 12:1-21. "And I'm giving you my mind and my heart and my will. That's all I have. I'm giving it to you. Now help me today to be what I'm supposed to be." I've been doing that for years, and I want to tell you, it works. It's Romans 12:1-2. And it gives you that balance. You think the Lord's truth, you feel that experience in your heart, and then with your will you do something. Now, if you don't obey—if I don't do something—it won't work. I'm putting myself out of balance. I think it's a terrific thing to be a Christian in spite of all the problems we may have.

Arnie Cole: So there's so many lies in our culture today. Lies about relationships, lies about who God is, lies about what's right and wrong. And our young people in particular, really any age, they're being seduced by these lies. So what's the best way to help people grow and know the truth?

Warren Wiersbe: One of the problems we face today has been caused by our universities. They start teaching relativism—there are no absolutes. And yet there are absolutes. You go into the hospital for surgery—they have absolutes. "Well, what are we supposed to take out today? Well, what difference does it make?" Nobody would talk like that. You take your car to the garage to have it serviced. "Well, what are we supposed to do? Well, it needs this, this, and this. Well, what difference does it make?" It makes a lot of difference. So today our kids are surrounded by this relativism that is so dangerous. Proverbs 23:23 says, "Buy the truth and sell it not." That's a great verse. The truth costs something, and today we've got to teach our young people that you stand for the truth because that's the only way to let the truth control your life. Buy the truth and sell it not.

Arnie Cole: So really they teach there's no absolutes in the spiritual world.

Warren Wiersbe: You're right. I'm glad you brought that up because "God's okay for you but not for me," you know, that type of thing. And yet without absolutes, where would we be?

Arnie Cole: Well, and without the Bible, you've got a tremendous problem. If you don't accept the Bible, then that makes it really tough, doesn't it?

Warren Wiersbe: I think you're right on track there because I was raised in Sunday school and church. I didn't get saved until I was 16 years old—heard Billy Graham at a Youth for Christ rally. But they had buried enough of that in me from the Word of God that I knew where I was going. And we need that today. Now kids don't like to be preached at, and maybe we shouldn't preach at them, I don't know. But we ought to give them the Word of God, whether you call it preaching or teaching or mentoring or whatever you call it.

Arnie Cole: Realizing where we live today, it's all about my family being comfortable, me being comfortable. You talk about having the mind of Christ, which means being prepared for battle. Well, battle seems uncomfortable. And don't you think most Christians are of the mindset of comfort and not battle?

Warren Wiersbe: I would agree with what you say. I think the verse you probably have in mind is what Peter wrote, 1 Peter 4:1-19. "Therefore since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same mind." The mindset of the Lord Jesus was that of conflict. Now, He did bring comfort. "Come unto me, I'll give you rest." He did bring healing, He did bring love, but in order to do that He had to fight a battle. And He had a betrayal problem right in His own band of disciples. Satan had put Judas and said, "This is your job from now on." You have said it correctly. Today, whether we like it or not, we're fighting a battle. We're not fighting for victory; Jesus has already won the victory. We're fighting from His victory. And any student in school who is peddled these lies that are so popular today can call upon the Lord Jesus and get wisdom and guidance from Him. We do have to have the mindset of a soldier, to put on the armor of God (Ephesians 6:11) and to fight the battle. I think today one of the most difficult places to be a Christian is the average high school and even grade school. This is where our churches and our godly parents come in, where we get the equipment and get the training and get the mindset.

Arnie Cole: So Warren, what do you think is the biggest threat to the Christian mind today?

Warren Wiersbe: Oh, I think one word—compromise. Compromise. It started very early in the church. You'll read it in the book of Acts, you'll find it in Paul's epistles where he warns them, "You know, this is the truth; walk in that truth." And today we have all sorts of religions and all sorts of brands of Christianity. But it's the Word of God. I think it was Isaiah 8:20 who wrote and said, "To the law and to the testimony; if they speak not according to this word, there's no light in them." We're surrounded by darkness. I recall when our four children were still in school, in public school, they'd come home with the weirdest ideas. And they'd say, "Dad, is this true?" "No, it's not true." "Well, why do they say that?" "Well, because they don't know the other side of the story." So we have this attitude in the world and I think that the Lord is going to give us a great opportunity to be strong soldiers. I believe persecution is coming. And in some places it's already there.

Arnie Cole: Oh, right.

Warren Wiersbe: So Warren, our research shows that the attitude of many Christians toward sin is really no different than the attitude of non-Christians. Does that surprise you at all? No, it doesn't. You had it in the Bible. You had Abraham who walked with God and you had his nephew Lot who went and got himself a house in Sodom and lost everything. One of the saddest verses in the Bible is when Paul wrote about his trials in Rome, when he was being tried, and he said in 2 Timothy 4:16, "Everyone forsook me." Can you imagine that? The very people that Paul had won to Jesus Christ, when Paul stood before the jury, they weren't there to say anything. And we're going to find this. Persecution is going to separate the sheep from the goats. It's going to show us who really has taken a stand. But you know, when you study church history, you find that persecution is the best thing that ever happened because it did separate the sheep from the goats and the mature from the immature, and it gave opportunities to bear witness and have some courage. And that's what we need.

Arnie Cole: Warren, why is money such an important issue for Christians? And why do people get so benout of shape over this subject?

Warren Wiersbe: Because they don't understand what it is. You see, in itself money is nothing. You can't eat it, you can't wear it. It's an exchange. If you need food, you take money and go buy some bread. If you need clothing, you take some money and go buy some clothes. Money is a symbol of wealth in a sense, so that they think, "If I have a lot of money, I've really arrived." Jesus was poor. Paul wrote a little verse that said that the Lord Jesus Christ, though he was rich, yet he became poor (2 Corinthians 8:9). And yet He's the greatest man that ever walked on this earth, the God-man Jesus Christ. So money becomes a thing to fight over. Families—I've conducted funerals and the consequence was the family was just fussing with each other before they read the will. And that's wicked. You don't measure the value of your life by how much money you spend or how much you have. It's good to have it, if God wants you to have it, it's good to have it. But it's not the most important thing. And so you and I as Christians have to move out of that mindset. Two men met one day and one said, "Did you hear that Charlie died?" And the other man said, "No, how much did he leave?" And the other man said, "Everything." That's what we have to remember—everything. Because the thing the Christian does, he doesn't hoard it, he doesn't waste it, he sends it on ahead. So that when you arrive in glory you find out what God did with that money that you gave to missions or to the rescue mission or whatever. And there are people saying, "Thank you that you gave, thank you that you sent it ahead, or we wouldn't be here."

Arnie Cole: Here's a quote from one of your studies. You say, "We are not giving God anything; we're just taking our hands off of that which already is His." What a great saying. But that applies to more than just our money, doesn't it?

Warren Wiersbe: It starts with us. In fact, in 2 Corinthians 8:1-24 and 2 Corinthians 9:1-15, which I recommend to everybody when it comes to Christian giving, they point out that these people first gave themselves to the Lord and then they gave their money. Now that's what we need. First I've got to give myself—Romans 12:1—present your body a living sacrifice. Then I won't be using my money for the worship of my body. And then after we have given ourselves to the Lord, we give of our substance. And after all, what we give, He has first of all given us.

Arnie Cole: Warren, before I became a Christ follower, I really worshipped money. Now that's reversed in my life. But how do we know where to give, what to give, and how do we prioritize where our money goes?

Warren Wiersbe: Well, that's one of the biggest problems some churches have. I've had church members come up to me when I was pastoring and say, "I got this letter from so-and-so and I'm wondering if I should support them." My wife and I just prayed early in our marriage, "Now Lord, show us what you want us to do with what you give us." Because after all we are not owners, we're stewards. Stewardship means this belongs to the boss, but he's given me the privilege to distribute it. And we've learned the hard way that there are some things you don't want to support. I think my first responsibility is to my local church. Isn't there a verse in Galatians 6:1-18 that talks about that, Galatians 6:6, where he says, let the one who's being taught in the word share with those who are teaching? In other words, if our listeners appreciate the ministry of Back to the Bible and God enables them, they should share. The Jewish rabbis did not charge their students for teaching. Did you know that? No, I didn't. No, they all had jobs. Some of them would be doing this or that and the Jewish rabbi would accept gifts, but that wasn't part of the procedure. Now we have so much. When we compare ourselves with anybody in the other parts of the world, we are wealthy. We have wealth untold. But it belongs to God, it doesn't belong to me. And so what we have to do is simply say, "Now Lord, we have this much money, you gave it to us, it's yours. Show us how to use it."

Arnie Cole: So Warren, what are some of your true riches and how often do you take an inventory of them?

Warren Wiersbe: Well, let's begin with ourselves. I thank God I've got a body that's working. I was almost killed by a drunken driver one night. So I'm alive. In fact, the doctor told my mother when I was just a baby, "You'll not raise him past the age of two." So I was supposed to die at the age of two and here I am on the verge of—I better not tell. I'm up in my 80s now and trying to keep on going. I thank God for a mind that is working. I'm thankful for the Church of Jesus Christ. I was raised in Sunday school and church. I went to Youth for Christ, heard Billy Graham, gave my heart to Jesus, gave my life to Jesus. And you know what? It's been wonderful. I'd like to do some things over again, but I guess that's a part of life. The true riches are the things that plug into eternity. And if I am using what God has given me for the building of His kingdom, when I get to heaven I'm going to see what He did with it. Most people don't realize what a great time we're going to have in heaven. They think we're going to be sitting around playing harps and of course some of them are harping a lot down here on earth, but that's not what's going to be. It's going to be labor for the Lord depending on what we did when we were here. And we are preparing now for our ministries in heaven. And so I'm grateful that I'm saved. I'm grateful for the Bible. I have buried my life in the Bible ever since I was 16 years old. The Bible has been my main book. I'm thankful for the Bible. And I am so thankful for the grown-ups who, when I was a kid Christian, taught me. I can see their faces, I can hear their voices. The follow-up studies after I got saved was in a man's house and he taught us the book of Hebrews 1:1. Can you imagine a new Christian studying Hebrews? Wow. I'm grateful for the Word of God. I'm grateful for the people God has brought into my life. Now all of this is a part of His plan. And a part of His plan for me is, those who are serving the Lord, here's the ones I want you to support. They're doing a good job. Help them. And if you enjoy receiving, pray that God will help you enjoy giving.

Arnie Cole: So Warren, someone today is listening that is experiencing severe financial trouble. Maybe it's a disaster, not even their own fault. Could be their health or loss of a job or maybe they're getting sued. Just something that is such a burden and it almost looks like there's no way out. Can you give them some encouragement?

Warren Wiersbe: Well, nowhere in the Bible are we told that we will escape tears and pain. Nowhere. I know there are people on the media who are telling you that if you know Jesus you'll never be broke and you'll never have this. Turn the radio or the television off. John 16:33, Jesus said in this world you're going to have tribulation. You don't get into the kingdom of God being carried on a throne. We all have experienced it. Death, the ultimate—we've been through it. And the answer of course to that is that we trust God for everything and never, ever think He has abandoned you because you've had to bury a loved one or because you've lost a job. He hasn't abandoned you. He's told you point-blank in Hebrews 13:5, "I will never leave you nor forsake you." In my pastoral ministry I've had to go through these experiences with other people. And the first thing they say is, you know, "Where is God?" And I tell them a little story. It came out in World War II. A farmer was out in his garden working on the plants and the vicar from the church drove in and that was not a very good sign. And he walked over to the farmer and he said, "Jim, I'm sorry, but we just got a telegram and your son was killed in battle in France." And the first thing the farmer said was, "Vicar, where was God when my son died?" And very wisely the vicar replied, "The same place He was when His own son died." The thing we have to remember is anything I go through, Jesus has already gone through. And so number one, I've got one person on my side, and He can't fail. Over and over again I have seen in my own life, in the churches where I've pastored, that the people who just walk with God, who trust Him, who claim His promises, they come through fine. Those who argue with God have problems. And so if there's someone listening now who's going through a difficulty and you're saying, "Where's God?" I'll tell you where He is. He's on the throne of the universe. He's running everything the way He wants to run it. And we do not live on explanations; we live on promises. You just find some good promises in the Bible and hang on to them.